K-475 Original Strap

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Bobpaul009
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K-475 Original Strap

#1 Post by Bobpaul009 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:34 am

There have been some great discussions here about the K-475 and I’ve come to believe the suggestion that in the two case runs for that watch, there were really two variations, explaining the two generally accepted versions of dial and bracelet. I’m not sure, though, that I’ve ever seen an original strap other than the one in the wonderful photo in Rene’s Watch of the Future.

Does anyone have a photo of an original k-475 strap (front, back and buckle) that they could share here? And I have to believe there would be two variants of these, too. Even the famous Ventura black/gold strap has two variations of font for “Hamilton.”

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#2 Post by Nookster » Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:35 am

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#3 Post by taxman150 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:42 pm

Original bracelet and two different dial scripts.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#4 Post by Bobpaul009 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:25 am

taxman150 wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:42 pm
Original bracelet and two different dial scripts.
Taxman thanks for these photos! It’s great to see the two dial variants side-by-side. Are those both variants of bracelet as well? I’m more familiar with the two-piece Kreisler.

Can anyone say what brand of black strap is original to the K-475? Better yet, anyone have a photo of that?

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#5 Post by GreenBayStamps » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:02 am

I understand the top example from the taxman is accurate. I have owned a couple over the years. There are pins so the length can be adjusted. There were two sizes produced. One about 5 3/4” and the other about 6 1/8”. These were sold also on the aftermarket, so not all of them have a Hamilton clasp. They are available on eBay and sometimes can be purchased for a reasonable price. I have never seen a Hamilton clasped bracelet on the open market, except with the watch.

Kreisler did make this bracelet as one piece, with an expandable back. To my knowledge, Hamilton never sold any from the factory this way.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#6 Post by Nookster » Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:10 am

Pat, the last band I do not believe is correct, see attached
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#7 Post by Bobpaul009 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:39 pm

Mark, that ad is why I have Hamilton ads as a saved search in ebay—love it.

Pat, thanks for sharing the great info. Appreciate it and very glad to meet you!

I believe Randy Van has a show stopping K-475 in original box which would likely settle any bet about which dial and bracelet should go together (his is stylized “automatic” + expansion). Would love to see it posted on this thread.

But the black strap… is it a mystery?

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#8 Post by GreenBayStamps » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:47 pm

Nookster wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:10 am
Pat, the last band I do not believe is correct, see attached
Agreed! Times of Plenty has one on eBay!
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#9 Post by Bobpaul009 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:15 pm

Times of Plenty has one on eBay!
Awesome find! I couldn’t be trusted to file those ends down to 18…

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#10 Post by randy van » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:01 am

Here is my K-475, in original box.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#11 Post by randy van » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:06 am

Here is a wrist shot of my K-475
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#12 Post by randy van » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:16 am

I think it is certain that there were two runs of the watch which accounts for the two dial variations. That may also explain the two different metal band styles - expansion and clasp - seen on the watches found in very good to excellent condition. The watch could also be purchased with a strap. Rene's book, on page 214, shows another box style. A nice collection would be each variation!

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#13 Post by Nookster » Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:03 pm

Just fantastic Randy

I collect ads and an inventory of them. It helps me when people ask about bands. I’m guessing I have some 500 plus Hamilton ads, brochures and other watch advertising merchandising.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#14 Post by Bobpaul009 » Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:11 am

I think it is certain that there were two runs of the watch which accounts for the two dial variations. That may also explain the two different metal band styles - expansion and clasp - seen on the watches found in very good to excellent condition. The watch could also be purchased with a strap. Rene's book, on page 214, shows another box style. A nice collection would be each variation!
Randy, I believe you said you found a couple links for this band in your box—a pretty strong signal that they were paired originally. Thanks for showing it here—it really is terrific and I agree it would be wonderful to collect both variants!

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#15 Post by taxman150 » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:24 am

randy van wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:16 am
I think it is certain that there were two runs of the watch which accounts for the two dial variations. That may also explain the two different metal band styles - expansion and clasp - seen on the watches found in very good to excellent condition. The watch could also be purchased with a strap. Rene's book, on page 214, shows another box style. A nice collection would be each variation!
Agreed Randy! Here is the box set that I have from Susan.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#16 Post by Nookster » Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:13 pm

I always like the K-475 with the script writing on the bottom versus the block lettering.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#17 Post by retroworx » Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:32 am

GreenBayStamps wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:02 am
Kreisler did make this bracelet as one piece, with an expandable back. To my knowledge, Hamilton never sold any from the factory this way.
Ah, brings back fond memories of one of the most epic battles on this forum. Too bad Jim isn't here to duke it out. :lol:
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#18 Post by Nookster » Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:29 am

Yup, ole Jim was on the side of the clasp band was the only band for a K-475. Not sure we ever figured it out before his passing. But if you look in the 1906-1961 catalogs, which I told him, the bands styled with the K-475 ad I showed him were offered on other watches. He was a firm believer in the "Catalog Photo" is the definitive answer. I told him several times that they used different hands-bands and such on the same model outside the catalogs. It was an endless argument with him, he always wanted the Catalog bracelet, until I showed him ad's with different bracelets, then he started getting the picture.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#19 Post by taxman150 » Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:01 pm

With all of the examples of liberties taken by Hamilton to potentially substitute different component parts like hands, crowns and other easily interchangeable parts, its hard to believe that they would treat the bracelet style as an absolute, especially where the difference may only relate to the clasp. I have a handful of watches that carry an original bracelet from another Hamilton model of the same period and likely came from the factory that way based on what was available. I also have examples of Hamilton's where the dial is different than the catalog image and yet they are original in all respects.

If someone has a personal preferene that they only want to collect exactly what is depicted in the catalog, more power to them. We all make our own choices.

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#20 Post by Nookster » Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:11 pm

Here is a great example, these are not in the catalogs
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#21 Post by Bobpaul009 » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:12 am

It feels like the hierarchy of trust re bands, straps, hands etc is:
1) NOS in box
2) Ads
3) Catalogs…

45) e-bay listing

But seriously… take Randy’s example in box… which included links for the bracelet… have we now reached the “N” in this study re the champion pairing with the K-475?

As for the black strap a I’ve been harping on… This photo from Rene’s book certainly differs from the catalog.
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#22 Post by retroworx » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:07 am

Nookster wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:29 am
Yup, ole Jim was on the side of the clasp band was the only band for a K-475.
Hey, Mark, I went looking for that epic multi-page discussion/debate about the K-475 bracelet but I can't find it — was it removed? (For reference, the thread was titled "K-475 Seattle Goodwill auction".)
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#23 Post by retroworx » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:28 am

I was trying to track down that old thread to see if the alternate non-clasp bracelet was Kreisler or JB Champion. If I recall, the bracelet on that Seattle watch and others Mark has seen was Champion? (I have a spare Champion one here and am trying to confirm if it is the correct K-475 alternate.)
randy van wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:01 am
Here is my K-475, in original box.
Randy, could you tell me if your bracelet is Champion or Kreisler?
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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#24 Post by randy van » Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:26 am

My band is a JB Champion.

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Re: K-475 Original Strap

#25 Post by retroworx » Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:33 am

randy van wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:26 am
My band is a JB Champion.
Thanks!
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