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 Post subject: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:14 pm 
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Location: NJ, USA
In 1960 Timex introduced the 400 Series that featured a 17 jewels movement. The movements were made by Hatori of Japan and also by Laco of West Germany. The 400 Series were made from 1961 until 1962.
Here is my collection of them:

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But, it was not long before there were plans to phase out the 400 Series and introduce a new series with a movement that was 100% of Timex design and engineering. This movement would be the 21 Jewels and was introduced in 1961. So what do you do with all those 400 parts?

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Yes, you make a transitional piece that is not in the service manual! It has a 21 dial with 400 on it and a 21 Jewels movement inside.

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Here now is the full collection of 400 I have. BTW - I have only seen a 400 display box once and was out bid on it..... so if you spot one LMK.

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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:57 pm 
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Wow. That is impressive!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:22 am 
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Sweet collection.

Love the star detail on the movement cover. . .

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 Post subject: Re: Timex connection to "Seiko"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:06 pm 
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Nice write-up! Interesting to see the connection to Seiko, I've not heard about that specifically before [in those days, the "Seiko" brand was made by "Hattori Corp."]. Do you know specifically which Hattori movement calibres were bought by Timex??

Is one of the movements in your shot a Seiko?? ... the one on the left does have some of the characteristics of certain Seiko movements of the 1950s.

Interesting too that some Japanese companies did use Laco movements mid 20th century ... so, some of their later movements (self designed & produced) also carried some Laco "DNA". I'd have to go to my notes to see if "Seiko" was one of those firms that had an assocation with Laco.


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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:55 pm 
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Location: NJ, USA
here is a shot of a Hattori (left) next to Laco (right). No markings on the Hattori that indicate the cal. No other use of hattori and Timex that I am aware of but since at this time Laco was owned by Timex they did produce thier first battery operated watches.


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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:41 am 
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Morris, great collection. You seem very organized judging from the great pics!
The pocket watch gives a tip of the cap- I mean cover!

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 Post subject: Re: Hattori movement identification
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:40 pm 
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JerseyMo wrote:
here is a shot of a Hattori (left) next to Laco (right). No markings on the Hattori that indicate the cal. ...


OK - thanks for the pics! From what I see there, the Seiko/Hattori used was the 17j (lowest jewel count variant) Diashock version [Seiko experimented with several designs of anti-shock springs & Diashock was the one they finally settled on after a few other styles were implemented in production movements] of the "Marvel" movement (also used in the Laurel, sort of a cost-reduced Marvel). Indeed, these movements from the '50s had no calibre identification markings [Marvel was introduced on "Time Memorial Day" - a "one time" holiday in Japan, June 10, 1956]. But, the shape of the plates, the presence of Diashock, the style of jeweling all point to it being that movement ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400? "The Box"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:53 am 
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One more grail in house and with one of my 400's inside.

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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:04 am 
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Just added another 17 Jewels to my collection. Top row, second from the left.


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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Nice Mo.....Cheers p


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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Nice to see a fellow Timexican here Paul. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Timex 21 Jewels or 400?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:24 am 
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JerseyMo wrote:
Nice to see a fellow Timexican here Paul. :D


Didn't know where you were hanging out now......p ;)


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