Dear EBay Sellers:

Vintage Hamilton Watch Discussion Forum
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pETE201
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#201 Post by pETE201 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:00 am

Sorry, the bracelet is clearly correct, my mistake :oops: I'm not sure where I was looking when I compared that one. ....
However, the hands being in the Dauphine style seem more suited to a WG Titan Iii or a Lord Lancaster E. The Nautilus 500 series tend to have very delicate hands which are easily damaged when fumbling the crystal out. The photo thread image of a 509 shows a slender style of minute and hour hand with a thin strip of lume, and the seconds hand is plain but again very fine. It may be the Hamilton "parts bin" at work, but those hands don't appear catalog correct at least. .(imho!!!)

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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#202 Post by retroworx » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:23 am

Here is the watch with Dauphine hands shown in Rene's book:
509 hands.jpg
509 hands.jpg (218.22 KiB) Viewed 694 times
Here is a 509 which I recently sold. The watch was as I found it, with original bracelet, crystal and sales sticker still on the back.
509.7.jpg
509.7.jpg (186.1 KiB) Viewed 694 times
I suspect this is another one of those cases where the catalog illustration does not always or exactly match the variations sold.
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hamiltonelectric
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#203 Post by hamiltonelectric » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:05 am

The one in my book was a salesman's sample, 100% factory correct. These were fitted with dummy movements and only part of the bracelet. That made them useless as watches for someone to steal, but perfect for showing jewelers exactly how a watch looked when draped on top of the wrist. I had a whole set of these samples in an original 505 salesman's kit, which is also illustrated in my book.

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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#204 Post by retroworx » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:32 am

Thanks, Rene.
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pETE201
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#205 Post by pETE201 » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:33 pm

So, does this mean that there are two acceptable hand variations for the Nautilus 509? The type in Rene's book and also the type shown in the photo thread (and catalog)? Just trying to fully understand!

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watchdoc
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#206 Post by watchdoc » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:47 pm

pETE201 wrote:So, does this mean that there are two acceptable hand variations for the Nautilus 509? The type in Rene's book and also the type shown in the photo thread (and catalog)? Just trying to fully understand!
I'm pretty sure it would all fall into the "variant" conversation/discussion.
Sometimes there are no absolutes in horology :shock:
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hamiltonelectric
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#207 Post by hamiltonelectric » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am

pETE201 wrote:So, does this mean that there are two acceptable hand variations for the Nautilus 509?
Quite possibly. Maybe probably. There are many instances of different hands originally being used on Hamilton watches. The Altair is one example, with both baton and dauphine hands used. That one is documented in the surviving spec sheet for the watch. There were unquestionably different hands used on Vegas and Meteors -- the evidence is clear from the many surviving and previously unrestored originals that I've seen over the years -- but I have not found the spec sheets. Even the Ventura had some variation, but there is was clear that the scarce pinched dauphine style was only used during the early stages of production.

Due to the fact that there is much less demand for round styles like the Nautilus series there are fewer of these watches turning up in collector circles. That makes it much harder to judge based on empirical evidence, as is possible with Vega / Meteor. Clearly, however, Hamilton did sometimes use different hands in the same case style, either due to a styling update or out of simple expedience -- substituting hands when the stock of 'correct' hands ran out.

The same is true with Flight I watches with Flight II dials -- there's no documentation known authorizing it but empirically there are far too many original Flight Is turning up with Flight II dials for it to be aftermarket tinkering.

While the details of these changes are usually undocumented, the process was. I quote from a 1957 internal report in my Collector's Guide saying "...it is often necessary to recase some models, to change dials, and work at top speed, particularly in the Casing and Dial Departments, just before the Christmas season."

There are few absolutes when it comes to Hamilton!

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Dave
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#208 Post by Dave » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:54 am

pETE201 wrote:So, does this mean that there are two acceptable hand variations for the Nautilus 509? The type in Rene's book and also the type shown in the photo thread (and catalog)? Just trying to fully understand!
The example in the Photo Thread is mine. I cannot vouch for it's 100% originality or provenance.

Like most photos in the photo threads, this one was included when there were no other photos of this model available. The photo threads were started as a simple model identification project but it's grown much beyond that. Even after all these years, it is still very much a work in progress. I'd like to swap out that image for one of the examples included in this thread because they represent the model better than the existing photo.

Edit - and it's done. The photo threads now show a photo of a correct example as shown in this thread.
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retroworx
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#209 Post by retroworx » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:16 pm

Dave, I think that maybe you should show both: Your watch shows the catalog version, the others show what seem pretty clearly to be an alternative. Seems to me that both are likely correct.

P.S. Since when did you have Electrics?? :lol:
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Just 1 More
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Re: Dear EBay Sellers:

#210 Post by Just 1 More » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:53 pm

I agree with Susan mine I have in my collection is as shown in the catalog but have seen Dauphine hands which I have noted as also being correct

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