Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

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Namespetra
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Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#1 Post by Namespetra » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:14 am

Do you think this is an original factory dial, or not?

Hamilton had offered Masonic dials throughout the years on several of their standard models. Although I've seen Knights of Columbus insignia on a few Hamilton dials, they have always appeared to me to be after market additions. I've never found an original Knights of Columbus dial on a Hamilton watch with a mechanical movement, although I have seen them on models with Quartz movements.

This example seems like it may be an original K of C dial. The watch runs a 17j Swiss automatic grade 836 movement. It has a base metal bezel with a stainless steel back. The case back number is 836011-14. It has an 18mm lug width. The bezel diameter is approximately 35mm. Although the dedication on the case back dates to 1984, the style of the watch has attributes of models made in the 1970s.

As a Fourth Degree Knight of Columbus I have special interest in this Hamilton model.
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K of C dial
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836011-14
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Grade 836
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Exposed dial
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#2 Post by GLADIATOR » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:55 pm

My feeling, based on what i see from Hamilton is - NOT genuine/original
a
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#3 Post by Namespetra » Sat May 02, 2015 7:29 am

At this point, I think the dial may not have been painted at the factory. The somewhat "globby" paint-job of the logo, as well as the absence of the Hamilton name on the dial, lead me to think that it is not an original design. The case, movement and crown all bear the Hamilton imprint.
However, the absence of a refinisher's notch on the dial's edge and the "Swiss made" imprint on the dial may indicate that the dial was an original design. But it is possible that it was an original design and creation by someone other than Hamilton and that it was fitted onto the Hamilton movement and placed into a Hamilton case. Since it is clearly an award watch by an organization, it is possible that in these latter days of Hamilton's history such accommodations were made for larger corporate accounts.
By the way, this is the first time I've come across an Hamilton 836 automatic movement. I notice that the first three numbers of the case number are the same as the movement grade number - 836.
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#4 Post by GLADIATOR » Sat May 02, 2015 7:53 am

Namespetra wrote:At this point, I think the dial may not have been painted at the factory. The somewhat "globby" paint-job of the logo, as well as the absence of the Hamilton name on the dial, lead me to think that it is not an original design. The case, movement and crown all bear the Hamilton imprint.
However, the absence of a refinisher's notch on the dial's edge and the "Swiss made" imprint on the dial may indicate that the dial was an original design..
Means nothing, the majority of reworked dials do not have "notch" marks.
Re-looking at the "globby" paint, no way original.
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#5 Post by Namespetra » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:54 am

The mystery is solved: the Knights of Columbus automatic Hamilton is a 1975 Hamilton Auto Cal Jason. The design, movement grade and case back number are identical. The Knights of Columbus logo seems to have been painted in the center of the dial thereby omitting the Hamilton name, logo and "self winding" designation. Maybe Hamilton provided finished dials with only the minute tracking so that organizations could have their own logos painted on the dials by someone other than the factory that manufactured the dials?

Incidentally, the Auto Cal Jason model appears only in Hamilton's 1975 Fall supplementary catalog.
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Jason K of C
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Jason case back
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#6 Post by Dave » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:27 pm

Namespetra wrote:The mystery is solved: the Knights of Columbus automatic Hamilton is a 1975 Hamilton Auto Cal Jason. The design, movement grade and case back number are identical. The Knights of Columbus logo seems to have been painted in the center of the dial thereby omitting the Hamilton name, logo and "self winding" designation. Maybe Hamilton provided finished dials with only the minute tracking so that organizations could have their own logos painted on the dials by someone other than the factory that manufactured the dials?

Incidentally, the Auto Cal Jason model appears only in Hamilton's 1975 Fall supplementary catalog.
Good detective work. 8-)

This one is not in the photo thread. If it's OK with you, I'd like to rehost the photo so I can crop just the watches in the photo.
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#7 Post by Namespetra » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:41 pm

^^^ Thanks, Dave. No need to repost the photo, I included a wrist shot of this watch in the WRUW thread.
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#8 Post by Namespetra » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:45 pm

Oh, I see you already did that...boy, are you good AND quick! :)
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#9 Post by Dave » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:51 pm

Namespetra wrote:Oh, I see you already did that...boy, are you good AND quick! :)
Yup, I found it in the WRUW thread. I have to take care of these right away because if I don't, the volume of work can build up quickly. :D
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Re: Knights of Columbus dial, case# 836011-14

#10 Post by Namespetra » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:09 pm

I recently acquired another Hamilton watch from the Lancaster, PA, area with the identical Knights of Columbus logo on the dial. This model is the 1975/6 variation of the 1973 Dateline A-690. It has a case number of 822002-4 and runs a grade 822 automatic movement. The font of the engraving on the case back (presented in 1980) appears the same as the other one (presented in 1984). The size, coloration and dial placement of the insignia on both watches appears to be the same.
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