Seiko automatic movements -- which are best??

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HamiltonIllinois
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Seiko automatic movements -- which are best??

#1 Post by HamiltonIllinois » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:24 am

I see a ton of different Seiko automatic movements in Submariner-style watches from the 80s, 90s, and newer. Does anyone have definitive list (or perhaps just your list based upon experience) of which are the best and perhaps which (if any) should be avoided?
Rick
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scio me nihil scire or scio me nescire

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Ninja01
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Re: -- which are best??

#2 Post by Ninja01 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:27 pm

Based on the title of your post, I was expecting a somewhat different question than what you posed in the body of your post ... if you're just limiting the question to diver type watches from Seiko made in '80s, '90s, & 21st century ... I really can't be much help there.

If you're looking for divers of an earlier era though (late '60s thru '70s) ... go with the "Professional" models (with depth ratings of 300M & 600M). In those cases the movements are close relatives of those used in the Grand Seiko models of the day.

The 1st generation of 300M used a low-beat, 35 jewel cal. 6215. It is architecturally the same movement used in the 6245 GS/Chronometer. The difference in 3rd digit, within certain Grand Seiko movement families implies the degree of regulation/fine-tuning at the factory.

The 2nd generation of 300M (and the later 600M) switched to a hi-beat (36K bph) Grand Seiko Special relative. The calibre 6159 is a close relative of the Date-only 6155 which was used in a Grand Seiko Special model. The "Special" indicated a higher degree of regulation than a "regular grade" Grand Seiko. In those days Seiko [Hattori Corp] had an entire formal range of accuracy grades, the "regular" GS was "Mens AA" while the "Special" GS was "Mens AAA". You can see more details of the grading @

http://seikoholics.yuku.com/sreply/170/ ... Ju1xDguM0k

The regular divers of that era [150M rated] used movements that were "mid grade" movement without fine-adjusters. They likely complied with a "Mens C" or lower accuracy grade.

So, to extrapolate to more modern Seiko automatic divers ... again, stick with the more "Professional" models with greater depth ratings, they usually have better grade movements (from what I've read about later divers, though I'm no expert in that area). However, I don't think there are any from that later period that use a very close relative of a Grand Seiko mechanical. So I'd guess the late era ('80s -> today) Pro divers [300M or higher] are not as "elite" (in terms of relative movement quality/accuracy) as those I described above.

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HamiltonIllinois
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Re: Seiko automatic movements -- which are best??

#3 Post by HamiltonIllinois » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:33 pm

Actually, I am looking mostly at 6105 and 6309 models -- so from the late 60s and 70s, I guess. And yes, I am looking at divers. While I can appreciate that Grand Seikos and King Seikos are wonderful watches, they are pretty boring in comparison to a 6105-8110.
Rick
..................................................
scio me nihil scire or scio me nescire

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HamiltonIllinois
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:26 pm
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Re: Seiko automatic movements -- which are best??

#4 Post by HamiltonIllinois » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:56 pm

Full Disclosure: That is CLEARLY not the issue with the Grand Seiko drivers...they are terrific!
Rick
..................................................
scio me nihil scire or scio me nescire

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Ninja01
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Re: movements -- + boring dress watches?

#5 Post by Ninja01 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:36 pm

HamiltonIllinois wrote:Actually, I am looking mostly at 6105 and 6309 models -- so from the late 60s and 70s, I guess. And yes, I am looking at divers. While I can appreciate that Grand Seikos and King Seikos are wonderful watches, they are pretty boring in comparison to a 6105-8110.
1. If you are looking only at things like the 6105 & 6309 [and corresponding 700x models of a later date], then realize these are all mid-grade movements from Seiko, without a fine-adjuster on the balance. Likely they all are of a similar quality level.

2. Well, "boring" is in the eye of the beholder. I've collected the divers [including 1 "sport" diver re-issue from the '90s with a calibre 7S36, the 6105-8110, and the 6159 600M], chronographs [613x as well as the 701x movement family], Bellmatic, and the "classic" dress watches from '50s thru '70s [Marvel, Lord Marvel, King, Grand, Cronos, Liner, various hi-end Seikomatics, Presmatic, cal. 8306, etc]. They all have their own charm. I really have liked the Japanese Dress models (of the late '50s thru late '60s especially) in comparison to European & American watches from a quality/cost ratio in the market ... as well as the quality level independent of price. I'd compare even the King Seiko level (especially the hi-beat Certified Chronometers) very favorably to an Omega Constellation of the same era. Maybe a Grand Seiko Special or even VFA doesn't quite match up to a Patek or Lange, but I don't quite find it "boring" 8-)

If dress watches aren't your style, well OK. But, I don't share your opinion of the "better quality" range of Seiko (or Citizen, or Orient, or even Ricoh/Takano) as boring :lol: ... I rather like all my "babies" ;)

Many can be seen in that vintage Japanese brand database I helped write:

http://seikoholics.yuku.com/forums/69/J ... C9JZ1fhjNE

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