Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

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Dave
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#21 Post by Dave » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:19 pm

GaryM wrote:If Dave makes space for us I will gladly pay him for space for our material. I too would support having space to post pictures directly to this site without posting on them on 3rd party sites like flickr. Dam! One thing I loved was having history access to images on the Gruen site without seeing "photo no longer exists". Oh well, onward sir...
Not me. :lol:

This site is 100% Mark's (Nookster) baby...created, owned, operated and entirely financed by him. All of us owe Mark a huge debt of gratitude for offering such a forum our use. I am simply entrusted to help keep the place civil, help members where I can and weed out the spammers. I will assist the Gruen enthusiast community however I can as well.

Hosting has become an issue and members have migrated to third party sites. If any change is to be made here, it will be entirely Mark's decision.

With regard to DMCA, when I put together the Hamilton resources, I used member's photos with their permission and it is almost all linked from individual member's third party hosting accounts. I don't mind this at all and it gives the photo's owner control over their own photos. In the event that caused many of us to migrate here, many members broke their links at our old hangout in protest. Yet because the interest is genuine, I was able to recompile the resources here from the very same members. When I find a photo I need from a new member (who may or may not be around or save the photo), I will ask permission to use the photo and host it on my account. If you look through the Hamilton Master Photo Thread, you might find only one broken link (that I haven't got to fixing yet). It's a system that works in this context. It makes the content available but respects the owners of the content.
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GaryM
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#22 Post by GaryM » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:53 pm

Thanks Dave! I will ask the Gruen group where they want to go here shortly. Staying here is probably good for now but will nookster have the same ideas and pull the plug? We are a more of a research-oriented group apart from many other vintage watch groups. Most of Gruen Company documentation was destroyed when they went belly up. The folks here have been reverse-engineering a lot of Gruen data, now scattered about cyberspace. Doing it here at Vintage would also scatter it as we have to post our images/files on third party sites.

I've replied to several of you personally. For new Gruen members I believe you need a minimum of 5 posts before you can send a PM. Dave please correct me on this if I'm wrong.

Gary

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Dave
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#23 Post by Dave » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:18 pm

GaryM wrote:Staying here is probably good for now but will nookster have the same ideas and pull the plug?
I cannot speak for Mark but the history of this site and his reputation suggest that this is an excellent place to land. I heartily suggest you contact Mark privately with your concerns. He has replied to this thread already if you want to send a PM.

I do not see a 5 post limitation for PMs in the rules...but making five watch related posts is easy. :lol:
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GaryM
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#24 Post by GaryM » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:40 pm

Thanks Dave. I will will contact Mark. I'm looking for ways that are free of the DMCA act. The forum collective of information should be free of this and I would want a forum that gives the right to anyone to take data with them and disseminate. This would be based on disclosure of course.

Right off the bat this forum is a good start but is too Hamilton focused, too male focused. Get rid of the boyish banner of Hamilton watches that is displayed and put some Elgins up there. This deters others. Better yet put a Gruen Ladies Cartouche up there. Get with the theme of this forum for God's sake!

Sorry for the rant, just a small Gruen fan amongst the Hamilton Kin pins.

Enough said...

Gary

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JackW
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#25 Post by JackW » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:42 pm

GaryM wrote:put a Gruen Ladies Cartouche up there. Get with the theme of this forum for God's sake!
Stirring up trouble already!

:mrgreen:
All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me
"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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GaryM
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#26 Post by GaryM » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:53 pm

JackW wrote:Stirring up trouble already!

:mrgreen:
You bet! We as Gruen orphans are my family, my priority. I take the responsibility that we all are treated fairly amongst the kin pins here if we want to stay.

mrtoad
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#27 Post by mrtoad » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:24 pm

What the owner of the former Gruen forum doesn't seem to recognize is that he's destroying other people's intellectual property. I didn't use that site a lot (I'm mostly into Illinois and Hamilton), but if it was like the other forums I know, a significant part of the content was generated by the members, not just by the site owner. In cutting off the site, has he asked the contributors what their desires are relative to their contributions? (With the site cut off, there's no easy way to check that.)

As for reconstructing the site from cache data, the contributors have the right to do that with their own work. IANAL, but my familiarity with the DMCA suggests that its sharpest knives are pointed at those who break encryption. Retrieving from cache wouldn't seem to come up against that, but maybe one of our lawyer members can speak to the subject.

We should be grateful to Mark for creating and financing this forum. While I share his love of Hamilton watches, I'm glad to see that this forum provides plenty of space for other makers, and I enjoy reading posts across all the threads. Let's hope he lives long and propers so that we can continue to benefit from his largesse.

mikeyt
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#28 Post by mikeyt » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:58 am

I do share some of Gary's concerns about this site but i suspect things like the banner etc are simply carry-overs from when this site was really Hamilton-focused and simply haven't changed with the growth of the site. Given that there are a number of other brand forums here (Bulova, Elgin, Illinois, Gruen, Omega etc along with a separate forum for Ladies watches), it would be more attractive to fans of the other brands to see one or two of their watches up in that banner. Possibly even a rotating banner with different watch photos showing up each day!

From what i've seen in the other forums here it looks like a friendly community of watch lovers. That said, i suspect the ownership of this site will do all he can (within reason!) to accommodate the 'Gruenites' as we migrate here from our former home and i'll continue to look forward to our future rather than back into the past....
Time passes too quickly for my tastes...
Visit us at vintagegruen.org!

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JackW
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#29 Post by JackW » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:06 am

mikeyt wrote: i'll continue to look forward to our future rather than back into the past....
Well said!
All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me
"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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GaryM
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Re: Gruen wristwatch forums - gone

#30 Post by GaryM » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:19 am

Yes, well said Mike! We certainty have a bright future and we all will have a part in making it work for us.

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