A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

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MikeTheWatchGuy
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A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#1 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:08 pm

I've been grinding away at this Gruen Movement Catalog problem. Not much of the work is visible as it's been largely collecting and organizing the data.

I have finally been able to pull together the detailed data of each movement and I married it to either modern images or images from the Gruen Material Catalogs.

I like to see "The Big Picture" for problems and you've got to admit, this is one BIG picture. I've laid out the movements according to size. This document is only the non-round movements, so there are at least this many MORE movements to put onto another "map".

I believe I will be able to turn this image into an actual interface that will then take you off to individual pages on each movement.

Two apologies.... one, the bad resolution. This is only 1/2 of the resolution of the actual document. I'm limited in what I can post. The second is the watermark. It's a balance.

I DO hope you are able to use this document. I will be turning it into a full-size WALL CHART soon which will be full resolution without watermarks as it'll be paper :-)

I'm anxious to see if anyone else is able to better understand the Gruen movements after seeing them in this format. I made a number of "aha" type discoveries while making it.

As usual, enjoy!!!!
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Gruen Movements Sept 2017 - Gruen Movement Table - smaller.png
Gruen Movements Sept 2017 - Gruen Movement Table - smaller.png (3.45 MiB) Viewed 600 times
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MikeTheWatchGuy
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#2 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:50 am

Hmmm... OK, I know it's hard to impress the Gruen crowd....

What it it was interactive??

I'm glad you asked.... I'm hoping to have it up on GruenWristwatches.com soon as one of the ways into the movement details. I've learned how to make "hotspots" on the image so it shouldn't be long until you can click on it and be taken to the details page.

I've also begun to add my "Thumbprints" to each of the movements. I don't think it's too much to have it on that same chart. Maybe I'll make two hard copy types of charts... one with just the movements and one with the Thumbprints too.

Here's a sample portion of the current version...
Portion of Gruen Movement Map.jpg
Portion of Gruen Movement Map.jpg (184.82 KiB) Viewed 578 times
Note that the GREEN boxes are meant to be "Signposts" that get you in the right neighborhood. The actual details as to whether a movement is a Curvex or a Quadron can be found within the movement's box itself. I included the Family in the details.

Hoping this will eventually become something highly usable.
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watchdoc
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#3 Post by watchdoc » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:42 pm

Mike, once again I'm impressed beyond imagination!

Insert hand clapping here.....
"A man is no better than what he leaves behind"
Cecil B. DeMille

Try to remember, Just because you read it on the internet, doesn't make it true!

semroc
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#4 Post by semroc » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:13 pm

Very cool stuff. You say it's categorized by size. Is there a way to tell which movements are of the highest quality? Thanks.

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MikeTheWatchGuy
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#5 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:44 am

semroc wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:13 pm
Very cool stuff. You say it's categorized by size. Is there a way to tell which movements are of the highest quality? Thanks.
Why yes there is a way to tell the high quality movements! Glad you asked ;)

In each square I've included as much information as I can about the movement, including the "quality level".

Gruen defined several quality levels in the "Guild Era" documents such as both of the 1920s Material Catalogs. The database driving this chart has these Quality levels shown in the upper left hand corner of each movement. Additionally, if a movement is a "Precision" movement, I've colored the box's lines in RED.

Also, I looked at images of every movement and recorded information on the number of "Adjustments"

Here's a sample portion of the chart that includes the popular 8 3/4 ligne Veri-Thin and Curvex movements
Gruen 8.75 Ligne Movements.jpg
Gruen 8.75 Ligne Movements.jpg (344.44 KiB) Viewed 542 times
There is additional data that I would like to add including whether or not the movement has a subseconds.

I've also begun to add the "Movement Thumbprints" that I developed for each movement.

Oh, important fact.... ALL movements and ALL Movement Thumbprints are oriented such that the stem is facing RIGHT. So, if you have a movement that you're trying to match to a Thumbprint or a photo, make sure and hold your movement such that the dial is down and the stem is right.

The Movement Thumbprints show the movement's shape as a silhouette. The 3 major "wheels" are colored Purple, Blue, and Red. Additionally, the Train Bridge has been shaded Yellow and has black holes in the shading where you will find the screws and jewels.

You can see how they work in the example posted above for the 430 family. They all have the same Thumbprint because they all look the same in terms of the layout of those wheels and the Train Bridge. Once you've matched your movement to a Thumbprint you'll want to match the data stamped on your movement with the data in the Movement Map's squares such as the number of jewels and the number of adjustments. I don't know of any other watch movement database that includes the number of adjustments on the movements.

Stay tuned for more info on electronic and paper versions of this Gruen Movement Catalog.

As always, I'm interested in hearing feedback on how it can be better.
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MikeTheWatchGuy
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#6 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:20 am

Ohl, this is important and not yet mentioned... I want to thank Bazzab for his ceaseless work on finding the date movements began production. Without his help we would still be working with the dates provided in the Master Book decades ago. This chart wouldn't be possible without his help on the dates, sizes, photos, ..............

Thanks B!
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#7 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:35 pm

OK, you can now surf a super-high resolution version of this diagram / map at this address:
http://www.gruenwristwatches.com/moveme ... og-map.php

it's an interactive version too. You can click on these movements to get the detailed data on them:
440, 311, 430, 431, 435. It's the same details page as what's been up for a while now. It's this interesting Map front end that's kinda cool

So, try it out. You can't yet get to it via any menus on the site. Use this link and you'll have access to the latest version, in realtime with high res photos.

Feedback welcomed. I'm wondering if it might be good to include the MM measurement along with the lignes?? I'll give it a try. You can see how it turns out at the address for the map.

I think it's unique among vintage watches. Gruen has special features other brands don't, right? :D I'm trying to capture new information this time.

Thanks for all the awesome words of encouragement. They're much appreciated! Grateful people find it useful.
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semroc
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#8 Post by semroc » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:52 am

It looks like the 840, and 841 movements are the top quality ones. Is that correct? Thanks, this is great stuff. I wish there was this chart fir all the elgin, and benrus, and other vintage movements. Thanks again.

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MikeTheWatchGuy
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#9 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:10 am

The Movement Catalog is just about DONE for the non-circular movements.

Click here to download Gruen Movement Catalog in PDF format:
I am now on the hunt for movement photos. Almost all of the movements shown in this PDF are modern photographs and high enough resolution that you can ZOOM in and read the writing stamped on the movement. This particular version of the PDF had to be downsampled so that I can post it here on the forum.

If you wish to contribute a movement photo, please message me! I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to add your name to the list of people from the community that have helped. I only ask that you actually own the rights to use the photo you supplied (i.e. you know the source and have permission to use it in this way).

There are errors, that's for sure. I've got some missing dates and missing measurements. Still, it's pretty damned amazing as it stands now.

You can search for the movement you want information on and if it's on the Map, you'll be taken to it. There are a FEW movements that have active hotlinks to detailed movement data pages on the GruenWristwatches site.

I've begun to add the THUMBPRINTS onto the movement information squares. Adding the Thumbprints is not yet complete, so you can expect more updates, of course.

I think that it's highly functional for locating your non-circular movements. The movements are organized by SIZE and FAMILIES and DATES. Generally speaking, if a movement has "Child" movements that are based on its design or have interchangeable parts, I've placed the child movements under the parent. Movements get wider as you go down the page.

You'll find ADJUSTMENT information and Quality Level information that you will not find in any other Gruen database that I've looked at (Bestfit and other catalogs and online parts shops). Guild-era watches that have Guild stamps on them have a GREEN box around them. PRECISION movements have a RED box around them.

I'm still playing around with the different "Themes". This particular one has drop-shadows that need fixing up in some areas... those are all details that will slowly resolve themselves. I don't suggest printing this diagram just yet as the quality level is not high enough to print it. Give me a little time to figure out the printing.

I'm interested in feedback on how it can bet better!! I'm building it for you guys as much as my own use, so if you have images, data, or comments, I'm interested.

Here's a thumbnail of the contents of the PDF
Gruen Movement Catalog Thumbnail.jpg
Gruen Movement Catalog Thumbnail.jpg (158.33 KiB) Viewed 422 times
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MikeTheWatchGuy
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Re: A reference "Map" of Gruen Movements

#10 Post by MikeTheWatchGuy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Sorry about the update frequency..... I noticed a good number of errors in the prior version. Some of the movement photos were associated with the wrong Caliber Number. They were pretty gross mistakes, enough to warrant a quick-spin of the map.

I think you'll find this version the most accurate to date.

Download here:
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