Tobias of Liverpool "swiss fake" or not

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kwijibo
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:13 am

Tobias of Liverpool "swiss fake" or not

#1 Post by kwijibo » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:05 am

Hi everyone,

I'm brand new to this forum. I've always been a "watch guy" with an affinity towards pocket watches. My maternal grandfather was a watch maker for decades, so I guess it's instilled in me.

So my grandfather was a watch maker for something like 70 years. He passed away about 10 years ago and my uncles pillaged everything they thought was of value. I finally have the chance to dig through the "garbage" as the family calls it. For garbage, I've already found a Rolex bubbleback, solid gold cases, and some unique pieces that are worth a few hundred each. My uncles are not the brightest bulbs in the family tree. My mother is quite happy as I have given her all the moneys collected from this endeavor.

The reason I post: There is a M _ Tobias that intrigues me. The movement is a keyed movement, there is no winding crown, just 2 square posts that come straight out of the back of the movement. The movement has no engraving on it.

-The case is a hinged glass front, with a hinged rear case back, and a hinged inner case back. The inner case back has most of the inscriptions, its reads:
Detached lever
Full Jeweled
M (some letter I can't read the script) Tobias
Liverpool

-Inside the inner case back is stamped 1387

-Inside the outer case back there are a few markings:
I387 (the first digit is a letter, a roman numeral, not a 1)
the word "argent" in a box
and the letters LH inside a circle with a crescent moon as part of the circle

-The outside of the outer case back has a detailed landscape engraving, and the dial has a detailed landscape engraving. I have not seen the same landscapes on any picture online yet.

I know about pictures being worth a thousand words, but I forgot the watch with me today. I'll post pics later for sure.

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JerryT
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 11:59 pm

Re: Tobias of Liverpool "swiss fake" or not

#2 Post by JerryT » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:25 pm

It sounds like a Swiss watch that has been engraved to make buyers think it was really made by Tobias (who was a well-respected English watchmaker). This type of fakery was common back then. Good pictures will help us tell you what it really is.

kwijibo
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:13 am

Re: Tobias of Liverpool "swiss fake" or not

#3 Post by kwijibo » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:06 am

I read more about the hallmarks, the Argent stamp has a shield with 2 Chevrons and a dot in it. That was the nail in the coffin, that is a swiss hall mark. This watch doesn't have any British hall marks at all

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