Vintage Watch Forums

Vintage Collector’s Site for Discussion
Home
Hamilton Watches for Sale
It is currently Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:37 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
I need some advice. I picked this watch up not too long ago. I must admit that I am more of a WW1 watch guy, rather than Late 1920's to 1930's. But this one for some reason spoke to me. I need some help in better identifying what I actually have. I know it is a Illinois Model 152 AKA Consul, beyond that, I would love more information

I would appreciate any advice I could get. I have read some, but I would prefer to get the information from the source.

Slinfiniti


Attachments:
Dial.jpg
Dial.jpg [ 78.68 KiB | Viewed 441 times ]
Movement.jpg
Movement.jpg [ 89.57 KiB | Viewed 441 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:53 am
Posts: 1090
What color is it? White gold? (On my monitor it looks yellowish.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
14 karat white gold


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:53 am
Posts: 1090
Thanks! (My eyes are tired this morning and I didn't see the "white gold" wording on the pic of the inside case back. Knew the model was 14K solid, of course.) I see that the midcase is also 14K (some were nickel and marked as such). Perhaps others whose eyes are functioning better than mine this morning will comment about whether the midcase code marking and inside case back numbers seem to match. (Rick? Greg?)

I understand that there will be a ton of new information about the "Consul" (as well as other models) in Fred Friedberg's upcoming Illinois book, but we're presently in waiting mode (at the mercy of the publisher, I presume).

Are you planning to sell the watch? If so, here or elsewhere?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:10 pm
Posts: 593
Location: Idaho, USA
Well, I am not one of the experts but, To my eye it looks like VII VIII on the mid-case which matches the 78 on the case back. Beautiful watch.

_________________
"Percentage players die broke too..." - Fast Eddie in the Hustler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
I am not sure if I want to sell it. If it is a hard to find model, I'll keep it. I am finding mixed data about this particular model.
That's why I have come here, how rare is the subdial at 6, how rare is ALL 14 karat and not a combination of nickel?
Any help would help and approximate fair value to sell it?

Thank you


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:53 am
Posts: 1090
Do you have a copy of Fred's first book? He says in the section on the "Consul" model that the dial with subs at 6 is "hard to find" (p. 128). As for an "approximate fair value," that's probably something you need to figure out for yourself from observing what other "Consul" specimens go for. (If it were me, I'd want to hang onto that watch because the model itself is a "must" for a serious Illinois collector and the dial is an uncommon one.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
I am finding out that consuls were or are prized. This is my first solid gold Illinois. I have a 21 jewel New Yorker and a WG filled Guardsman.

I would love some hints on how to clean the dial? This is becoming more interesting


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:08 am
Posts: 1412
slinfiniti wrote:
I am finding out that consuls were or are prized.

It was their only solid gold model with much Art Deco flair, other than the Tuxedo, but that's a rather small watch using an 18/0 movement, so it's much less sought after.

_________________
Real men wear small watches.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:02 pm
Posts: 660
My first impression is that the dial doesn't need cleaning. Most Illinois collectors accept some patina and many even favor it.

If you dial still has radium paint on it, you shouldn't try to clean it or do anything else with it except enjoy it.

My mentor in watch repair taught me that the best way of cleaning most dials is a tissue with saliva on it. (The saliva can dissolve some of the oils that are the most frequent contaminants on dials.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: NJ
That is quite a SUPER first Solid Gold Illinois!

For all of us who collect this brand, The Consul is considered the Gold Standard
and a "Must Have" for the serious collection.

This is a wonderful example. You are starting off with a solid gold Consul with a Solid gold
'center area' marked 14K. There are versions of this watch with "Metal" stamped where the 14K
is on yours. While any Consul is desirable, yours is more.

The Dial:
Your dial is an much older redial or a "Variation" during the Hamilton years put out to fulfill dial orders...IMO.
I have seen these over the years and the font around the sub 6 area is the cause of this discussion.
NOS or replacement Consul dials are some of the hardest to find. I happen to like yours very much and wouldn't do
much or anything to it. Whatever you do to it DON'T RUB IT.

Movement: There are 15, 17, 19 and 21J movements that could "wind up" in a Consul.
The Motor Barrel 21J is the top of the line and I would keep my eye out for one to put into this (some day) if you really want to
have it's value at the top of the food chain.

Overall, a Consul in almost any condition is quite desirable and yours is a beauty.

The reason you hardly see them around is, folks who have one rarely part with it.

Congrats and thanks for sharing!
G

_________________
Just living in Rick's world...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:19 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: NJ
Some Fun Photos I found...

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Just living in Rick's world...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
Thank you for the insight. I have very fortunate over last few years to come across some real "finds" I must admit that I won this from an obscure auction for $600. Yes, that is correct. My intent was to flip the watch as I traditionally have not been a Illinois collector. I have 4 or 5 that I enjoy wearing.
I have since discovered that this Consul is a treasure, that being said, I plan to keep it in my permanent collection. I am a bit disappointed with the dial condition, but I also know that it's value is closely tied to originality.
The information gathered here has been extraordinarily helpful in better understanding what I own.
I got lucky. Thank you all for the valuable information. Chalk one up for the good guys!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
I have a couple of questions about Consuls?

What years were they made.

If I wanted to find a 21 jewel movement and install it, what would I exactly look for.

Model 607? 21 Jewel

Or any 6/0 21 jewel from the same manufacturing dates?

I am intrigued by the collectability of this watch, this is not good for me.

I would appreciate your help.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Southern California
You have a beautiful Consul. Of the watches in my collection, I find myself looking at the Consul while wearing more than any other. For what it's worth, I personally like keeping the movement in the watch that it had when I purchase it, unless it is beyond repair. But that's just me. I have a 19 jewel, grade 609 movement in my green gold Consul. Now that I have mentioned it, I have to show it! Here it is:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:24 am
Posts: 4200
YOWZA!

_________________
Moderator
My vintage watch collection on Instagram: @retroworx
https://www.instagram.com/retroworx/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
I need some advice? I have a lead on a 21 jewel 6/0 that would fit in my newly acquired Consul, the date of the movement is 1932, does that fit with the manufacture dates of the Consul?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:59 pm
Posts: 34
Nice Consul you have there. The Illinois Consul is one of the most sought after Illinois watches. I have never seen one with the sub 6 like yours. Being a full 14K solid case all the way through, my option is that you should keep it. Very rare indeed. The exploding dial has aged well on your's and the luminescent numbers seem to be in excellent condition. Would seem the hands have lost their lume, but adds to the character and originality of the watch. Original dial Illinois that are still in good condition such as yours are highly sought after and hard to come across. If you do clean it I would only recommend Bergeon Rodico. A safe and effective way to clean the dial. Your's has excellent patina, I would recommend leaving it as is. I just spoke to my mentor and good friend this morning. He mentioned a guy with a Consul wanting a 21J movement installed as well as work on a New Yorker. If I had to put two and two together, my mentor Doug has spoken to you recently about this watch? From my understanding the Consul was made during 1930 year. I think Consul production lasted for more than one year, although this model was one of their top dogs, and during the depression many may have not been sold due to the selling price during this time period. Doug has been in the hobby since the 80's and one of the top notch collectors and historians on Illinois. I am very privileged to be his apprentice for the last 10 years. I would recommend the conversion. 21J Illinois wrist movements made during this time are rare to come across. My Yorktown has a factory 21J, all others I own are 17J. Anything beyond 17J was strictly for presentation, exception a jeweled motor barrel. The 21J movement would only complement your high end watch further. A combination not often seen. It's near impossible to know exact production dates. I would say it's a feasibly accurate marriage, what is the serial number on the 21J movt. in question? Would you happen to know a guy by the name of Beruge out of California? (forgive me of the incorrect spelling of his name).

Nice Consul, super rare!

Jon

_________________
"A Minute of Care is Worth an Hour of Repair" circa 1930.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 171
Jon,

I have discovered that the watch collecting fraternity is small. The gentleman you are referring to is Behrouze, I have acquired two amazing Illinois from him. I must say, a class act. He has been gracious and very forthcoming with advice and support and occasional watch acquisition.

I have been in contact with Doug to help me out tweak my Consul. This watch, my Consul has really taken on a life of its own. I am excited about my acquisition and I look forward in having Doug tweak it. He will look an my New Yorker at the same time, it has decided to stop and start.

The more I lurk in this forum, the more I get help. Now I need someone to help me find a Hamilton Seckron magician to help me in my final restoration of my Hamilton Seckron. It needs final assembly help.

With all the kind information I have received about the Consul, I have decided to upgrade the movement to 21 jewels, seek Dougs advice on the dial and hands. This is a watch that I plan to keep. I feel very lucky. I am very fortunate that $600 got me such a great timepiece. The universe smiled on me that day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Illinois Consul
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:59 pm
Posts: 34
It is nice to make your acquaintance here on the forum. You are in good hands with Doug, there is a chance you can get the hands re-lumed via "International Dial" out of Dayton OH. They do an excellent job on dial and hand refinishing. Many here on the site have used this service from what I have read on various topics. International Dial can match the color of the lume to that of the numbers creating a close to original look.

For $600.00 you did good. This watch on the market is easily worth $1300.000 or more!

Jon

_________________
"A Minute of Care is Worth an Hour of Repair" circa 1930.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Terms of Service