New Yorker 21J Score

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GJH
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New Yorker 21J Score

#1 Post by GJH » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:46 pm

Ok folks... I said Fred has lost his mind when it comes to his collection and selling.
The other day he posted 2 watches FROM the first book.
A NY'er and a nice Ace... Both were IN the First book. I have bought several featured book watches over the years and
Fred has always been very hesitant to sell them, as these are usually from his personal colection. I have bugged him for YEARS for
certain watches.
Anyway, I couldn't resist and grabbed the 21J NY'er.

Some first shots.

Image
Motor Barrel 21J
Image
Fred #441
Now this tells you just how old this is in his collection... his current numbers are in the 4000 range
Image

There is also a very special sticker that comes on them (FJF) that those of you who have bought a Fred Watch know.
Everyone always asks me where I get all the hardest to find stuff and this is where I find a ton of goodies.
The nice part is, I know Fred's stuff is the real deal and it has the Fred Provenance.
Moderator Illinois Watch Forum
Still, Just living in Rick's world...

unreformed66
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#2 Post by unreformed66 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:32 pm

Wow, very sexy! Enjoy it and wear it in good health.

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GJH
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#3 Post by GJH » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:06 pm

unreformed66 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:32 pm
Wow, very sexy! Enjoy it and wear it in good health.
Thanks so much...
You are my new favorite forum member!
This has been up here for a week and you are the first
person to notice it.
Fred has some incredible watches for the taking and
I just couldn't resist the 21J Motor Barrel movement.

The New Yorker was one of Illinois' most popular and successful
models and they are always in demand.

Thanks Again!

G
Moderator Illinois Watch Forum
Still, Just living in Rick's world...

semroc
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#4 Post by semroc » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:35 pm

Beauty of a watch. Those motor barrels sound like the way to go. Is that their top of the line movement?

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jimglynn
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#5 Post by jimglynn » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:03 pm

Way to keep an eye on Fred's bargains. Great buy!

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HamiltonIllinois
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#6 Post by HamiltonIllinois » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:08 pm

I have known Fred for about 2 decades, and I did not know to look on Fred's site for bargains. LOL IF I had known that a 21J Motor Barrel was there for sale, I would have bought it too!

Buying an Illinois directly from Fred is like buying an original Monet or Degas 100 years ago from Paul Durand-Ruel. Such opportunities are the stuff we WISH we would have done when we had the chance. (And as a guy who also collects original art/prints, I sadly only own one print that I know came from the collection of Durand-Ruel, but many great watches that came from Fred, and most remain the jewels in my collection.)
Rick
..................................................
scio me nihil scire or scio me nescire

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GJH
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#7 Post by GJH » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:04 am

HamiltonIllinois wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:08 pm
I have known Fred for about 2 decades, and I did not know to look on Fred's site for bargains. LOL IF I had known that a 21J Motor Barrel was there for sale, I would have bought it too!
Buying an Illinois directly from Fred is like buying an original Monet or Degas 100 years ago from Paul Durand-Ruel. Such opportunities are the stuff we WISH we would have done when we had the chance. (And as a guy who also collects original art/prints, I sadly only own one print that I know came from the collection of Durand-Ruel, but many great watches that came from Fred, and most remain the jewels in my collection.)
Well Said Rick...
My best stuff has come from Fred. He seems to come across everything at one time or another and you have to check
in and look because you never know what will pop up. These bargain buys are something you never see from Fred and a real treat.
I think I saw someone wearing a beautiful NY'er (or 2) on the WRUW thread, maybe
we coax them over here for a look?

G
semroc wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:35 pm
Beauty of a watch. Those motor barrels sound like the way to go. Is that their top of the line movement?
Yes for sure, they are very desirable and the top of the line.
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mrcardigan
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#8 Post by mrcardigan » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:58 am

So how is a motor barrel different from a normal barrel?

mrtoad
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#9 Post by mrtoad » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:56 am

With a conventional barrel, sometimes called a "going barrel", the barrel arbor is suspended directly by the plates. The winding wheel is connected to the arbor (it's the big wheel visible above the plate on most wristwatch movements), and the barrel rides on the arbor. The mainspring runs from the arbor out to the rim of the barrel.

With a motor barrel of the sort used by Illinois, the barrel has what amounts to a fixed arbor directly attached to the barrel and extending above and below the barrel. The lower pivot of this arbor is supported by the bottom plate (on the 21-jewel wristwatch movements this is jeweled). Inside the barrel and around the fixed arbor is a cup-shaped piece that serves most of the functions of the barrel arbor on a conventional barrel. The fixed axis of the barrel comes up through it and is supported at the plate level by a bearing in the cneter of the cup (again, jeweled in the movement in question). The outside of the cup is the inner anchor of the mainspring. The bottom of the cup comes through the plate, and the winding wheel is attached to it by multiple screws (two on this model). In Greg's second picture, you can see the jewel setting between the screws and the axis of the barrel in the center of the jewel.

The motor-barrel system requires more parts than the conventional one, but in theory it provides better support for the barrel and less friction for the turning barrel. The barrel does need steady support since the gear teeth around it must engage the pinion on the center arbor.

mrtoad
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Re: New Yorker 21J Score

#10 Post by mrtoad » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:00 am

This kind of motor barrel was used by Elgin, Illinois, and Hamilton. Waltham used an "inverted" motor barrel in which the winding mechanism turned the barrel itself and the piece at the center of the barrel to which the mainspring was anchored came up through the barrel cap and turned a large wheel that in turn engaged the center pinion of the movement.

Pictures of both kinds of motor barrel can be seen at http://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t ... 9243964277

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