Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

Place for watch and non-watch related topics
Message
Author
User avatar
GLADIATOR
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Spain - Costa Blanca

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#11 Post by GLADIATOR » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:11 pm

stryfox wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:45 pm
I don't have a problem discussing fakes if it's a conversation about why they are fake. If it's about how to make a better fake to fool people I see it as a problem.
I would pick the real timex over the fake Rolex every time.
To me people who buy fakes are more concerned about what other people think than about what they have.
I like the submariner,sure it's an iconic watch and I would like having one in my collection. However that money buys lots of vintage American watches I like.
I bought a steinhart, and own some seiko dive watches that have a submariner look. Nothing fake about them. Of course we know where the style comes from but that does not make a fake.
Yes - HOMAGE above fakes
I agree all your sentiments.
a
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Visit Here:http://highercailber.com/
Adam R Harris

User avatar
GLADIATOR
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Spain - Costa Blanca

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#12 Post by GLADIATOR » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:12 pm

JerseyMo wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:48 pm
I work for a music company so am well aware of the impact of piracy and how so many I knew lost their positions because of it.
Absolutely its not just watches that piracy and counterfeiting is hurting

Thanks your comments
adam
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Visit Here:http://highercailber.com/
Adam R Harris

User avatar
SFC
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:55 pm

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#13 Post by SFC » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:02 pm

I have a question... What do you think about customized watches (authentic watches that have been manipulated)? I am talking about bamford, blaken, etc that take new luxury watches and sandblast or pvd the cases/bracelets and add their own dial and hand sets. If you would send any of these watches to their respective factory service they would be rejected as counterfeits... yet the watch companies have done nothing to stop these watches from finding high end retailers to distribute...So these watches are not viewed as genuine watches but are also not viewed as fakes either because if they were they would not be trading freely.

Blatant fakes don't make me upset at all... I get more irritated when dealers mislead, misrepresent, or simply omit information to their benefit. Especially, if they are selling some premium watch that they are trying to get 100K+ for and they don't mention that the dial is not original, nor the hands, nor the bracelet, etc. Essentially taking the mere remnants of a great watch and making it pretty with a bunch of parts from god knows where and not saying anything. Totally messed up in my opinion.

User avatar
GLADIATOR
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Spain - Costa Blanca

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#14 Post by GLADIATOR » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:16 pm

SFC wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:02 pm
I have a question... What do you think about customized watches (authentic watches that have been manipulated)? I am talking about bamford, blaken, etc that take new luxury watches and sandblast or pvd the cases/bracelets and add their own dial and hand sets. If you would send any of these watches to their respective factory service they would be rejected as counterfeits... yet the watch companies have done nothing to stop these watches from finding high end retailers to distribute...So these watches are not viewed as genuine watches but are also not viewed as fakes either because if they were they would not be trading freely.

Blatant fakes don't make me upset at all... I get more irritated when dealers mislead, misrepresent, or simply omit information to their benefit. Especially, if they are selling some premium watch that they are trying to get 100K+ for and they don't mention that the dial is not original, nor the hands, nor the bracelet, etc. Essentially taking the mere remnants of a great watch and making it pretty with a bunch of parts from god knows where and not saying anything. Totally messed up in my opinion.
These so called "homage" watches break no laws.
They may look like famous brands but they do not infringe trademarks.

Personally, I am ONLY against companies that break the law or try to dupe people with "replicas"

a
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Visit Here:http://highercailber.com/
Adam R Harris

User avatar
SFC
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:55 pm

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#15 Post by SFC » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:47 pm

Image

Adam, I am not referring to homage watches. Take a look at the watch above. Its a genuine rolex with pvd on all the parts and a new pink dial that has the company who modified it on the dial as well as Rolex with the crown. How does this not infringe trademarks?

User avatar
GLADIATOR
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Spain - Costa Blanca

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#16 Post by GLADIATOR » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:28 pm

SFC wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:47 pm
Image

Adam, I am not referring to homage watches. Take a look at the watch above. Its a genuine rolex with pvd on all the parts and a new pink dial that has the company who modified it on the dial as well as Rolex with the crown. How does this not infringe trademarks?
It infringes and is illegal
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Visit Here:http://highercailber.com/
Adam R Harris

retroworx
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:24 am

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#17 Post by retroworx » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:27 am

What do you guys think of Omega Seamaster 300s that have all original factory parts that were obtained by authorized service centers and then rebuilt by them into complete, correct "new" watches decades later? That has given the Omega community quite a bit of debate and discussion. . . .
Moderator
My vintage watch collection on Instagram: @retroworx
https://www.instagram.com/retroworx/

User avatar
GLADIATOR
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Spain - Costa Blanca

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#18 Post by GLADIATOR » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:33 am

retroworx wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:27 am
What do you guys think of Omega Seamaster 300s that have all original factory parts that were obtained by authorized service centers and then rebuilt by them into complete, correct "new" watches decades later? That has given the Omega community quite a bit of debate and discussion. . . .
In my opinion
If ALL the parts are 100% original to that model its fine.
How ever if the dial (for example) is a reworked from a different model, then its a "marriage" watch.
Not quite as bad as a fake, but still out to deceive!

adam
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Visit Here:http://highercailber.com/
Adam R Harris

User avatar
kspaz
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:18 am
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#19 Post by kspaz » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:37 am

It doesn't infringe because the logo was necessary to describe the watch as a Rolex once it was modified. This is considered ''fair use.'' I didn't wear my 60's Seamaster due to the excessive water spots. I decided to get the dial refinished. Under the "fair use" exception, my watchmaker was able to put the dial back on because it was a true Omega.

User avatar
afire
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:08 am

Re: Is Discussing Fakes Condoning It?

#20 Post by afire » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:55 am

GLADIATOR wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:02 pm
afire wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:57 pm
GJH wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:37 pm
I always use the analogy...
Imagine showing up in a respected Rolex forum and trying to show off your fake.
Except Rolex is an extant company with intellectual property rights. I've got no problem with Depolliers, Panerai 3646 blank dial replicas, etc., as long as they aren't being represented as genuine. And I understand that the Depollier guy may well have crossed that line with some of his other products, though I don't have any firsthand knowledge. But if there's no fraud or violation of intellectual property rights, then all's fair game in my view.

People are not of one mind on these things. And in many fields, vintage cars, guitars, etc., yes, you would show up on a hardcore forum to show off your well done replica.
Its not just ROLEX that have trademarks and patents.
I realize that. I was responding to the specific example mentioned.
GLADIATOR wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:02 pm
"Panerai" is the Marque Depose or registered trademark of Officina Panerai - selling anything stamped with that name is 100% illegal. Same for OMEGA, Breitling, Prada, or Louie Vuitton.
Its illegal to sell counterfeit goods.
Adam
And I wouldn't buy or wear anything counterfeit or otherwise infringing. But I think some take a larger view of what constitutes a "fake."
Real men wear small watches.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest